tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3581047259314187297.comments2023-11-17T09:22:32.786+03:00CircumpolarWarrick Farahhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00389839484261120626noreply@blogger.comBlogger592125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3581047259314187297.post-41363505520629986642023-09-19T21:19:53.677+03:002023-09-19T21:19:53.677+03:00See also this short post:
https://equippinggroup.c...See also this short post:<br />https://equippinggroup.com/articles/primativeecclesiologyWarrick Farahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00389839484261120626noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3581047259314187297.post-64854956639023703912023-05-02T19:00:10.893+03:002023-05-02T19:00:10.893+03:00This opening line was over the top and made me NOT...This opening line was over the top and made me NOT want to read the book: “ Morpheus, Gandalf, Yoda, Professor X, Alan Hirsch. Iconic mentor figures who provide guidance, wisdom, and mystical aid to the protagonists in their respective stories.” in fact it made me want to barf.Chttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02721964362910353975noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3581047259314187297.post-77622429217005115702023-01-16T22:31:21.217+03:002023-01-16T22:31:21.217+03:00Surah Ikhlas Translation in Urdu English<a href="https://surah114.com/surah-ikhlas-translation-in-urdu-english/" rel="nofollow">Surah Ikhlas Translation in Urdu English</a>islamicpowerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00115401077121041165noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3581047259314187297.post-56373409621549997452022-01-29T17:46:50.010+03:002022-01-29T17:46:50.010+03:00A Comprehensive Guide to Baccarat in Las Vegas - F...A Comprehensive Guide to Baccarat in Las Vegas - FEBCasino<br />Learn <a href="https://casinowed.com/coin-casino/" rel="nofollow">인카지노</a> all you need to know about the Baccarat variant, including its <a href="https://worktomakemoney.com/" rel="nofollow">งานออนไลน์</a> layout, game types, and <a href="https://febcasino.com/" rel="nofollow">바카라 사이트</a> casino bonuses. Find a full list of casinos offering the gameAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3581047259314187297.post-70880811226103684862021-12-08T22:30:50.692+03:002021-12-08T22:30:50.692+03:00Great points Dana and Warrick. Dana, I really love...Great points Dana and Warrick. Dana, I really love what you said about humbly acknowledging believers who are different than us holding essentials of life with God. As one who was in leadership at Mars Hill for close to 15 years, I can tell you that the Mars Hill experience was deeply immersed in bible study and theological discourse. The problem wasn't lack of bible reading, the problem was reading the bible in the celebrated and unchecked arrogance that says "we've discovered the right way to do church." That lead to filtering the bible and theology through our own lens of right and wrong (or effective), and ultimately we know where that lead. <br /><br />Also, I'd contend that this is a far more widespread issue than most of recognize. How many people do you know who read their bible every day, are prayer warriors, are committed to serving the church, and yet eagerly hop on whatever cult of personality bandwagon suits their liking (Driscoll, Trump, MacArthur, Piper, etc...)? There is a very common and widespread disconnect between what is being read <i>out</i> of scripture, and what we read <i>into</i> it. Unfortunately, this is only serving to fortify tribal divisions. <br /><br />This is why I love what you said, Dana. One of the most significant things to happen to me after Mars Hill was learning that, and this will sound terribly obvious, Catholics had a lot to offer. So did Anglicans. So do the Orhodox and the Coptics. We spent so much time "contending" for our flavor, that we threw many babies out with the bathwater. I'm coming to see that curiosity is far more valuable than contending.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06776678833988822869noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3581047259314187297.post-88976223507013269482021-12-08T19:25:05.523+03:002021-12-08T19:25:05.523+03:00Thanks Dana for that vital distinction. The centra...Thanks Dana for that vital distinction. The centralized "Hub" approach for church planting that Mars Hill employed meant that when the top was unhealthy it had disastrous effects in the lower hierarchy. The hub also inherently limited the growth. It was indeed very different than generational CPM/DMM growth which focusses on the reproductive nature of each individual church itself in a network structure. It does seem that when movements are Bible-centric and not leader-centric then health is easier to sustain.Warrick Farahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00389839484261120626noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3581047259314187297.post-58776920251684584142021-12-08T18:42:04.116+03:002021-12-08T18:42:04.116+03:00Let's not be too quick to liken what is happen...Let's not be too quick to liken what is happening in networks of small Bible centered house churches, which are mostly being fed by study and application and sharing of scripture passages, with a Mars Hill, celebrity focused popular "movement".<br /><br />Heresy flourishes around celebrities. It withers under consistent Bible Study by the members of a group. <br /><br />We must certainly guard against false teachers and be diligent in comparing our local practices to Scripture,and keep deconstructing our assumptions that our way of doing church is "the Biblical way". We need to humbly acknowledging that believers who are different than us may be holding to the essentials of life with God in a socially different way. Praxis is important, and semi-literate people or oral learners who are practicing obedience and are obviously doers of the Word are notably different than the consumer oriented, passive hearers of the Word who flocked to Mars Hill.Danahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05038594044038528414noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3581047259314187297.post-9382045763427741712021-12-08T16:27:45.514+03:002021-12-08T16:27:45.514+03:00Very good points. We do need to watch for false te...Very good points. We do need to watch for false teachers in the way the New Testament does--at least 50% (maybe 75%?) of the yardstick is character not doctrine. Evangelicals tend to apply a strictly theological yardstick. If leaders like Driscoll officially measure up to it, we then overlook or play down their unofficial "chauvinism, combativeness, and autocratic hierarchy". We strain out a theological gnat but swallow a camel-load of character flaws. And we do the same thing when we go overseas. We tolerate arrogant, greedy leaders of churches that are officially evangelical even though arrogance and greed are distinguishing marks of "false teachers," while we condemn humble, teachable leaders of movements that don't officially subscribe to evangelical theology.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13401691269832810242noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3581047259314187297.post-74017896002258232382021-04-23T02:34:09.797+03:002021-04-23T02:34:09.797+03:00Warrick, I also deeply appreciate and resonate wit...Warrick, I also deeply appreciate and resonate with this post. I agree that movements are inherently integrative, especially when we understand them (as you do) as works of God, expressive of his character, in which we are privileged to participate by his grace. Building on what Kevin said, I would say that each of the "big four" or "big five" are, like discipleship, holistic in nature and are connected organically to the other aspects of God mission/work. Without denying the legitimate semantic focus of something like evangelism/witness (i.e., we don't want to make it mean anything or everything, anymore than we want that for "mission"--as Newbigin and others have pointed out), we can note that biblical evangelism/witness is multifaceted, with some aspects connecting naturally to discipleship or transformation (like evangelism that emphasizes Jesus' Lordship/kingship over all of life, or that calls people to repent of sin, including sins of social injustice or oppression). For example, Howard Snyder, in his book SALVATION MEANS CREATION HEALED, speaks helpfully of how Kingdom evangelism ("announcing and embodying God's reign") involves "conversion evangelism," "discipling evangelism," "justice evangelism" and "culture evangelism" (140-144). <br />Accordingly, I want to offer a long quote from Harvie Conn shared by one of my colleagues: "The western bifurcation of the sacred from the secular, combined with a pietistic hostility to the cultural side of the missionary task, has not helped us in seeing the totalitarian, radical demands of conversion as a sign of the Kingdom of God come in Christ and the Lordship of Christ over the whole of life. As a result, our gospel for Islam frequently does not make the total claim for all of life that Islam itself makes. The fruits of this are displayed in a Christian community where Kingdom lifestyle is narrowed to the confines of an ecclesiasticized subculture and there is little interest in the larger questions of culture and society. Turning to Christ is not always seen as also a turning to culture, where the believer rediscovers his human origins and identity, and a turning to the world in acceptance of the mission on which Christ sends the believer in eschatological pilgrimage. In this process conversion does not remake, it unmakes. The results of this are tragic for Muslim listeners. The radical nature of conversion involves a recreation, through union with the resurrected Christ, a resurrection from spiritual death, a “putting off” of the old and a “putting on” of the new. But too often for the Muslim, that rupture with the spiritual “past” is interpreted as discontinuity with his culture, treachery to his or her own cultural origins. (“The Muslim Convert and His Culture.” In Don M. McCurry (ed), The Gospel and Islam: A 1978 Compendium. Monrovia: MARC,1978, pp. 97-113, quoted from pp. 105-106). <br /><br />And what these "holistic" perspectives say about evangelism and conversion here could also be said about the holistic and integrative nature of church and church planting or about how transformation has to point back to and include personal evangelism. The general point you make, Warrick, about the connection between "movement dynamics" (with a people movement emphasis) and broader transformation (holistic mission and development) is well made in the recent book called UNDIVIDED WITNESS: JESUS FOLLOWERS, COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT AND LEAST REACHED COMMUNITIES, edited by David Greenlee, Mark Galpin, and Paul Bendor-Samuel (Oxford: Regnum Books International, 2020). See my own recent reflections on how to integrate, and yet distinguish, different aspects of our mission--our participation in God's mission/kingdom--from evangelism to holistic development in my article here: https://www.ijfm.org/PDFs_IJFM/37_2_PDFs/IJFM_37_2-Pokrifka.pdf. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15145911699362047465noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3581047259314187297.post-70557495132467720332021-03-30T21:47:03.362+03:002021-03-30T21:47:03.362+03:00Thank you Kevin. Wonderful edit. Yes disciple-maki...Thank you Kevin. Wonderful edit. Yes disciple-making is holistic!Warrick Farahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00389839484261120626noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3581047259314187297.post-37239952642932167862021-03-29T23:50:39.727+03:002021-03-29T23:50:39.727+03:00I appreciate this way of getting the "fullnes...I appreciate this way of getting the "fullness" and transformation stuff in...."And as they holistically obey/practice/embody all that Jesus has commanded, they are both transformed and (4) transforming others and communities in the process." Great!!!!<br /><br />I think the thing that would help strengthen that even more perhaps is to add something that screams to evangelicals that disciple making is the great commission, and disciple making includes the holistic stuff. Otherwise people will keep separating the holistic stuff out by saying it is not part of frontier mission but belongs to AFTER. But if we don't do discipleship "right" it won't work. So, maybe something like:<br /><br />And as they take seriously that to make disciples who do all that Jesus has commanded, they will make disciples who are holistically transformed (as they obey/practice/embody) and (4) transforming others and communities in the process.<br />Kevin HigginsAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03030221480564116112noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3581047259314187297.post-10394693487975260332021-03-02T20:49:12.461+03:002021-03-02T20:49:12.461+03:00Thanks for making us aware of this book. The quest...Thanks for making us aware of this book. The question of how Americans unconsciously (or consciously) center America in missional outreach is a well-worn theme in missiological circles. Unfortunately, I don't think the message is getting through to churches and sending agencies operating in the US. Perhaps this book (and a few others) will help us get a better grip on just how dominant Americans have been, the negative repercussions of that among the global church, and how we need to move to a new paradigm of collaborative and polycentric global witness. Michael Kuhnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11732235557072923601noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3581047259314187297.post-30571657549774422012020-08-29T18:49:08.794+03:002020-08-29T18:49:08.794+03:00Hi Warrick, thanks for the reply.
I appreciated t...Hi Warrick, thanks for the reply.<br /><br />I appreciated that Mack Stiles gave both positives and negatives about CPM based on his own experiences with practitioners. So personally I found it constructive, as well as encouraging and challenging, not condescending and dismissive.<br /><br />In contrast, I did not find a positive word about Stiles' post, there were parts that I found condescending and dismissive. In particular, your comment "Basically, he has started a movement that helped plant churches but he is against church planting movements. Let that sink in for a moment."<br /><br />It sounds like you’re saying that Stiles is being self-contradictory. But when I clarified his meaning, you said you already understood that. So what purpose did it serve? Why did you remove the capitalization from Church Planting Movements? Removing the capitalization changes the meaning of the phrase, and in doing so you are misrepresenting what he said. That whole section seems condescending and dismissive to me.<br /><br />I say this not to be condescending, but to point out how easy it is to see the speck in our brothers’ eye, and not the plank in our own. As you wrote, we need to do better!<br /><br />I am glad for your Motus Dei network, and I hope that Stiles will be able to participate in that discussion.<br />Elnwoodhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03209622976747469367noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3581047259314187297.post-44234666697725287932020-08-29T12:52:12.785+03:002020-08-29T12:52:12.785+03:00Hi Elnwood, thanks as always for writing. I do agr...Hi Elnwood, thanks as always for writing. I do agree with you.<br /><br />I also understood that he was trying to create a distinction, and my post was meant to show that there is much more to learn rather than criticizing something he doesn't fully understand. A friend counted 11 inaccuracies in the article and has already responded. I'll post it if he wants to share it. <br /><br />It is difficult to talk about movements constructively. But what makes the article so discouraging is that his approach was condescending and dismissive. We need to do better.<br /><br />So I <b> fully agree with you </b> that we need to address this issue with dialogue and relationships in Christ. I have started a network for this very purpose and we have more than 100 people involved: http://muslimministry.blogspot.com/p/movements.htmlWarrick Farahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00389839484261120626noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3581047259314187297.post-71959892387172750082020-08-29T08:17:33.876+03:002020-08-29T08:17:33.876+03:00Warrick, he's drawing a distinction between &q...Warrick, he's drawing a distinction between "starting a movement that helped plant churches" and "Church Planting Movements" (note the capitalization), the "relatively new missions strategy."<br /><br />For sure, we would like to know the details of his church planting experience, but I think the point is that he did not follow the CPM missions strategy but was still successful in planting churches.<br /><br />I remember I once received some negative feedback on a paper I wrote, from someone I didn't know all that well. Most of the critique was not about what I wrote, but what I didn't write. "Why didn't you write about this? Why didn't you write about that?" After some thought, I wrote back, "Well, because it's my paper, and I chose to write about the things that I wanted to write about. If you're interested in those other related topics, you should write your own paper." In God's providence, we've become good friends since.<br /><br />Stiles didn't write the article you wanted him to write, and answer the questions you wanted him to answer, but I think his topic is worth discussing. So, for example, if you could respond to one or more of the "six concerning weaknesses" of CPM that he cites, perhaps we can have a good discussion! And who knows, maybe you and Stiles could become good friends in the future.Elnwoodhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03209622976747469367noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3581047259314187297.post-70307383504355192792020-07-21T11:04:24.892+03:002020-07-21T11:04:24.892+03:00Somehow I missed seeing this post until today. The...Somehow I missed seeing this post until today. These are some fantastic observations and insights!!calebhhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03343807638382352308noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3581047259314187297.post-52572587176504823402020-06-22T21:40:53.558+03:002020-06-22T21:40:53.558+03:00Before grappling with these statistics I find myse...Before grappling with these statistics I find myself compelled to ask a few questions: <br />1) What definition of the word "missionary" is being used by Justin Long in this research.<br />2) Are the missionaries from third world countries being counted, including those who belong to no formal mission agency and who may or may not call themselves "missionaries"? I think here of the Filipino missionary movement, the Back to Jerusalem movement, the Nigerian missionary movement, the Malagasy missionary movement, and other such groups of missionaries. 3) How would someone even go about counting such groups missionaries? <br />4) What about the Indian pastor who moves from his part of India where there are many Christians, to an unreached area of Idia - for the purpose of reaching that area - he leaves his culture and language and goes to an area with a completely different culture and language, and the travel to get there cost most of what he owns - is such a man also included in these stats? <br /><br />- SammyCameroonGuyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00729141376799885845noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3581047259314187297.post-49327574195840493512020-05-18T01:33:42.140+03:002020-05-18T01:33:42.140+03:00I appreciate this article because it reinforced th...I appreciate this article because it reinforced the connections and material I am learning about right now regarding the Hagia Sophia.<br /><br />Nicely done.<br /><br />Thank youAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01633289457394268472noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3581047259314187297.post-66599288867735271852020-05-10T10:00:28.304+03:002020-05-10T10:00:28.304+03:00Stop the funds from the west, then see whether the...Stop the funds from the west, then see whether they agree with you or not!!Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13467942698769647377noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3581047259314187297.post-55681710928889412702020-05-09T23:41:43.397+03:002020-05-09T23:41:43.397+03:00May I just have the 20 pages conclusion please??
...May I just have the 20 pages conclusion please?? <br />Appreciate your help!!Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13467942698769647377noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3581047259314187297.post-39838532462608078172020-05-09T23:40:52.476+03:002020-05-09T23:40:52.476+03:00May I just have the 20 pages conclusion??
Appreci...May I just have the 20 pages conclusion?? <br />Appreciate your help!!Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13467942698769647377noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3581047259314187297.post-44448585759687982072020-04-06T23:22:59.493+03:002020-04-06T23:22:59.493+03:00I help lead the Mobile Ministry Forum and we'v...I help lead the Mobile Ministry Forum and we've been trying to curate and create resources for workers struggling with not being able to be out and about with the people God has called them to. You can find the latest-greatest we're putting out on the subject of media mediated ministry during a time of social distancing at https://mobileministryforum.org/recent-posts/Keithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00457947023320265156noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3581047259314187297.post-42478574890566074812020-04-02T21:36:19.913+03:002020-04-02T21:36:19.913+03:00Great starter questions. Glad I stumbled on this. ...Great starter questions. Glad I stumbled on this. So many new things to think about and new ways we need to be thinking.Paulhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17404080650631858832noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3581047259314187297.post-66420499716942992692020-03-21T23:08:21.278+03:002020-03-21T23:08:21.278+03:00It is so interesting to compare our current global...It is so interesting to compare our current global health crisis to the Ebola epidemic in West Africa. Believers have a unique calling to truly live their faith in times of crisis. Thank you for challenging us to think about the position we will take.Ashley Nhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04679877146497960166noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3581047259314187297.post-51170894676021242152020-03-19T17:53:38.547+03:002020-03-19T17:53:38.547+03:00Hi W,
I am basing my statement on what I quoted:
...Hi W,<br /><br />I am basing my statement on what I quoted:<br />"Muslims who follow Jesus (not all, but a number whom I know) do argue that on the basis of the Qur’an and the Bible a number of core Islamic teachings are incorrect ..."<br /><br />You wrote in your comment:<br />I'll let Kevin respond, but I personally don't seem him saying that he is using the Qur'an as a standard for religious teaching, nor that he is using it in discipleship.<br /><br />I didn't claim that KEVIN personally is using the Qur'an as a standard for religious teaching. That would be a misrepresentation of what I said. What I said was that he talked about the Qur'an as a standard for religious teaching. If Insiders are using the Qur'an to show Islamic teachings are incorrect, they are using it as a standard for religious teaching.<br /><br />Your article regarding the use of pagan poems in Acts 17:28 and the Qur'an describes the use of bridging contexts. That is, they are used when then they point to truth.<br /><br />You write in that article:<br />Although [the Qur'an] is often misleading and inaccurate, it also has shades of truth buried within, pointing the reader to the ‘previous books,’ which sometimes foster a yearning to learn more about the Messiah in the Bible.<br /><br />This is different than how Kevin talks about it, in that the Qur'an is used to show that "teachings are incorrect." Using the Qur'an as a bridge is different than using it as a standard of religious teaching. Paul doesn't use the pagan poems as a religious standard to correct the pagan's doctrine, nor should the Qur'an be used to correct doctrine, else it reinforces it as a standard of religious teaching. Do you see the difference?<br /><br />You write in your comment:<br />But the blanket assumption that all Insiders assume the Qur'an is a standard of religious teaching and will thus have their spiritual growth stunted is practically meaningless in real life.<br /><br />Who makes this assumption? I do not make this assumption (nor do I think Travis Myers is making this assumption). If you are attributing that assumption to me, it would be a misrepresentation of what I am saying.<br /><br />Myers is basing his critique on is a survey of Insider leaders (Parshall 1998), which showed that:<br />96 percent say there are four heavenly books, i.e., Torah, Zabur, Injil, and Qur’an<br />66 percent say the Qur’an is the greatest of the four books.<br /><br />Given those numbers, and your comment "In such cases spiritual growth could be stunted (if they indeed view the Qur'an as inspired and authoritative)," I think Myers is justified in his claim that "The IM approach stunts Christian discipleship and spiritual growth."<br /><br />Thank you for responding to my comments!<br /><br />Blessings,<br />ElnwoodElnwoodhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03209622976747469367noreply@blogger.com